Journalist: I’m in the TV studio with the Ambassador of the European Union in our country, Mr. Silvio Gonzato. Z. Ambasador, thank you for joining us. I would like to start with a question that every Albanian asks, although we hear at the news every day, and political parties give their versions too. But I would like to know from you, at what point are we with the EU integration process?

Ambassador: I think we are at a very crucial time in the negotiations between the European Union and Albania. It’s a time when we assess whether Albania is on the right track in the compliance with the so-called fundamentals of the European Union, which are the principles relating to the rule of law, to the justice system, to the fight against corruption. And the Commission has made a technical assessment. The Commission has made a report, that gives a positive assessment of the way in which Albania has complied with some standards that were set out by the Member States. When the Member States decided to open the negotiations, they also said, we want Albania to comply with a number of requirements, which we called interim requirements, because they are not the final thing, it’s not the final stage. 

We want Albania to comply with these requirements before we start closing chapters. Closing a chapter means regarding this policy, Albania has fully complied or has only partly complied in which case we give them a transitionary period. The Commission has tabled the report, but this is the Commission position, because we are talking about different institutions. The Commission on one side, and the Council on the other, is made up of Member States. The ball now is with the EU Member States. 

And they’ve had a series of meetings, looking both at the assessment, but also what is very important (and I don’t think people realize it now) is that what they are discussing now is also what the closing benchmarks will be. Isthe interim benchmarks what you have to do now, but they also have to decide these are the standards and the requirements you have to fulfill for us to close this cluster. 

Journalist: Sure, I understand.

Ambassador: And as you know, this cluster is the one that determines the end of the negotiations, because we only close it when everything else has been done, because of the importance of the rule of law and justice for the accession process. 

Journalist: However, the media has reported that nine European Union Member States have blocked the progress of the process called IBAR, a process that examines Albania’s progress to date. The media even mentions the names of these countries, which are Germany, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Sweden, Austria, Finland, Poland, Greece, and Bulgaria, countries that according to the media are not yet convinced that it is time to give Albania the green light. What is the relationship between these countries, how much influence do these countries have, and is it true that all nine of these countries are skeptical about the further progress of the process?

Ambassador: First, this is a process where we need to reach consensus. The sequencing of meetings is aimed at creating consensus amongst Member States. And the Commission is there to answer questions, to respond to critical points that Member States might raise and provide the information that they want in order to be confirmed or perhaps corrected in their perception of things. There is a lot of speculation about what is happening now in the so-called COELA, the Council Working Group on Enlargement. And I frankly don’t want to enter into that.

These are confidential negotiations, and we should allow that space to be respected. What is certain is that the meetings are continuing. There’s another one scheduled, so it means that the negotiations are going on. I don’t think we can talk about blockages. There is, of course, a discussion that is taking place. Member States looked at the technical assessment by the Commission, but they also want to look at the overall political context in which these reforms have taken place.

It is not a question of some Member States blocking others, having a different opinion. It’s simply a question of them discussing the situation, assessing the situation, asking questions to the Commission, and then also deciding what will go in the common position. 

And the common position is about the closing benchmarks. So that’s why the discussion is not like “the Commission comes with a report and they decide yes or no”. No, it takes time, because they have to decide what kind of requirements we want to put at the end of the process, to make sure that these reforms are anchored in the Albanian system and they are sustainable, they can’t be reversed. 

Journalist: You say there can’t be any blockage there, but may there be a separation of the process, e.g., with Montenegro, may there be a separation of the process for Albania, to be to another category in the progress of the integration process?

Ambassador: To be honest, I’ve never heardthat there was a coupling between Montenegro and Albania. They’ve been described as front-runners because Albania has made so much progress last year in opening chapters and has been catching up with Montenegro. In fact, if you look at the situation now, at the different candidate countries, indeed they are at the front. But I don’t think there’s ever been discussion of them being coupled together.And we keep on repeating that the process is merit-based. Each country is assessed based on its own performance. 

Journalist: Starting from the merit that each country must demonstrate in meeting expectations, and then to be discussed both in COELA and among the Member States of the European Union. Is the further course of politics in relation to the justice system an issue that hinders the progress of the integration process, or does it not interfere with this process?

Ambassador: When Member States look at a country’s situation, they look at the overall country; they look at the systemic issues; they don’t look at the individual cases. Individual cases can be symptomatic of a situation. But what we are looking at here is the systemic issue. And I think, on the positive side, we can say that SPAK and the special courts have been doing an amazing job in terms of fighting impunity, in terms of fighting organized crime, which is something that is particularly worrisome for some Member States, particularly those in Northern Europe, for example. So that’s the kind of analysis that Member States are doing. It’s not just of a specific case. It’s looking at how does the system in Albania work and how does it perform in addressing these challenges.

Journalist: A tense relationship between politics and the new justice, SPAK, does it affect the integration process?

Ambassador: Tensions can be positive, because if you’re talking about tensions between the executive on the one hand and the judiciary on the other, but them being independent of each other, that’s almost normal, I would say. If you look at debates in other European countries, you always find politicians sometimes criticizing the judiciary, the judiciary pushing back, etc. I’m not concerned about that. I think it’s part of a dialogue that has to take place, because after the reform, the justice reform which took place in 2016, we are 10 years after, there might be things that need to be addressed in terms of providing greater safeguards for the rights of the defendants, etc. 

What is worrying is when the discourse switches to personal attacks, personal and direct attacks against some members of the judiciary, because that has a different value in a way. It’s a way of intimidating, it’s a way of trying to exercise influence, it’s sometimes a way of undermining the credibility of some of the members of the judiciary, and that’s something that we do not value positively, obviously. For us, it’s certainly something that should not be done. But again, a constructive dialogue aimed at improving the performance of the justice system to make it more accountable to citizens, because, before I was talking about SPAK, but the ordinary justice system suffers from a lot of delays, backlog, citizens don’t really see justice, they don’t have access to justice that they deserve. A discussion on those issues is perfectly justified and is one in which we are ready to engage. 

Journalist: Do you have information that SPAK representatives may have been threatened, intimidated, beyond words mentioned by the media? Do you have any such information?

Ambassador: No, I’m not going to refer to any specific threats or intimidation. Actually, I think that they demonstrated incredible resilience in the face of some of the attacks, some of the insinuations also moved against them. So, I think that’s a positive signal. It means that they are sufficiently confident that they are independent and that they can resist this kind of attacks.

Journalist: Is the year 2030 an achievable goal for Albania to be part of the European Union?

Ambassador: I was saying that we are at a critical point. It’s a moment where Albania must convince Member States of its determination to carry out the reforms. And it’s a critical point also because it’s a window of opportunity. There is willingness on the European side to consider, you know, additional Member States joining the European Union. And this is a train that cannot be missed. And that’s why I think it’s also important that we give a very critical assessment of the situation in this country, but at the same time that all political forces see this as a national objective and rally under it, you know. I keep on saying that the European integration process cannot be the prerogative of the majority. It has to be a bipartisan process owned by all parties and owned by the whole of society. 

Journalist: Meanwhile the opposition calls for protest to overthrow the government. It is an internal political war between parties. Do this climate and this way of doing politics by the Albanian opposition help the process?

Ambassador: First of all, I’d like to emphasize the fact that I have a very healthy discussion and dialogue with the opposition. Again, I have spent a lot of personal energy to ensure that they were granted the space that they deserve in a democratic society, in a democratic parliament. I stepped in to ensure that the process in the two key committees that have been established, the one on territorial reform and electoral reform, that the space there is guaranteed for the opposition. And when it comes also to demonstrations, I think demonstrations are a democratic right, you know, in every country. What I think should not be condoned is the use of violence because you can’t ask to be heard in the parliament and then exercise violence outside. I think we really need to ensure that they are given this space in parliament.  

And in this respect, I was a bit upset to see that several proposals that the opposition has put forward in terms, for example, of inquiry committees, have been rejected outright by the majority. I think some of these requests could be considered. It’s an opportunity to look critically at some of the issues that are dominating the public debate these days, giving the parliament also the role of keeping the government accountable. That’s what parliament is about. 

Journalist: How is the government working on the integration process?

Ambassador: I think the government has set itself this goal, this very ambitious plan to finish the negotiations in 2027 and, you know, and accession to the EU in 2030. I’ve met an incredible amount of dedicated people to this goal. They really work day and night for it. The Chief Negotiator, the Deputy Chief Negotiator are extremely knowledgeable.They are tough negotiators, but I think they’re doing their job very, very well, and that is appreciated by Brussels. What we need to look at into now is to make sure that this is accompanied by a strengthening of the administrative capacity of Albania. What I mean by that is that you can adopt very good laws, but if these laws are not properly implemented, then you do not achieve the goal of changing the reality on the ground and improving also the life of citizens. We need to help Albania develop a public administration that is really up to the job, that is neutral, that is competent, that is professional. 

Journalist: Do you think there is a possibility for Albania to join with non-complete rights in 2030?

Ambassador: The plan is for Albania to carry out the reforms fully, to implement them fully, and to become a fully-fledged Member State. I know there’s a lot of speculation aboutdifferent types of memberships. This is a discussion which is going on in Brussels. I’m not going to try and repeat it here, but in the case of Albania, we should stick to plan A. 

Journalist: Which means that all clusters must be fulfilled for Albania to become a full member.

Ambassador: Exactly, yes.

Journalist: So, there will be no annex saying that we can be with non-complete rights and then think whether we can join?

Ambassador: I don’t think this is on the table. There’s been something that Commissioner Kos mentioned some time ago, notably that what Member States will want to see in the Treaty of Accession, (because once you finish the negotiations, you negotiate the Treaty that basically allows Albania to join), what they want to see in this Treaty is some guarantees that there will be no backsliding in rule of law and democracy.That’s something that definitely we will see in the Treaty of Accession. 

Journalist: Mr. Ambassador, you have often been under the pressure of personal attacks. What’s your comment on these attacks against you? 

Ambassador: I would make a distinction between personal attacks, which concern my private life, my sexual orientation. There I can only say one thing.  There are people whose only way of crawling out of oblivion, anoblivion they’ve been relegated to because they’re no longer relevant, their only way to get out of that is to make offensive remarks.Because nowadays, unfortunately, this kind of attitude triggers reactions and so makes them relevant again. I frankly have no time for them. I’m really not concerned. I don’t have anything to say to them. I’m fine with myself, and I don’t need to justify myself in any way. When people criticize my professional competence, when they say that I’m not doing my job properly… 

Journalist: That you are Edi Rama’s defence lawyer in the European Union …

Ambassador: Exactly. I think all I can say is that the European Union institutions have clearly stated that they have full trust in my capacity and in my judgment. What is also more important is that my colleagues, the Member States Ambassadors here in Tirana and those resident in other countries, they have full trust also in my judgment. And on a more personal note, I have to say I’ve met so many Albanian people who told me that I’m doing a good job, and I can tell you I’m fine with that. That’s enough.  

Journalist: Let’s talk again about domestic politics. There are some important reforms that the Albanian parliament must develop and then implement. Among them, the electoral reform, which you mentioned before. What is your opinion, should the small parties be heard, should the Electoral Code formula change, should we have a new formula in the next elections? What is your opinion?

Ambassador: I’m glad you mentioned the electoral reform because this for me is a very important point. That’s why we also told the two co-chairs, Mr. Bylykbashi and Mr. Gjiknuri, that we want to provide expertise to help them with this job and ensure that it is a consensus-based result that they achieve. Elections are a key moment in the democratic life of a country and a real sign of the democratic maturity of a country. They are very important under the so-called fundamentals cluster. The work that has been done today is crucial. You probably remember the remarks made by OSCE/ODIHR when they talked about several problems, but in particular the lack of a level playing field, the abuse of public resources, the situation with the online media, and the lack of transparency in campaign financing. All these things have to be addressed. And it’s not just a question of the Electoral Code, the formula which is used, although that’s also important. I think, if you want to achieve a situation where there is no imbalance between the incumbent party and the opposition parties, you have to ensure that the public administration is also neutral.

And that’s why the work that the government is doing in relation to the Civil Service Law, is very important, because it’s about creating a professional administration which is independent, which is accountable, of course, but is not politically steered. That has an important impact also for the electoral environment. But when it comes to small parties, I think they have to be given an opportunity to put forward their views, and their concerns and needs should be taken into account when the parties decide what kind of formula they want to go for, because pluralism is essential for a democratic society. Having a plurality of voices in the parliament, I think, can only improve the situation, it can only contribute to Albania’s progress. 

Journalist: In your opinion and based on your experience, is there a healthy pluralism Albania?

Ambassador: I would say that the situation currently is stagnant. You don’t see any new voices emerging or very few and they are extremely marginalized. If I compare the situation here with other European countries, or the country I know best, we’ve seen new faces coming up, and I think that’s also healthy, that’s always healthy. That’s why the electoral reform is important. It has to create an environment that can foster this kind of dynamic political life. 

Journalist: Do you think the time has come for the two major parties to have new faces leading them?

Ambassador: Ah, now you’re asking too much. I’m a diplomat, I’m not a politician. 

Journalist: What is the most important cluster for Albania for the process of integration into the Union European?

Ambassador: Obviously the fundamentals, the rule of law, justice, and fundamental rights. I would then say environment is one of the most challenging ones for Albania, where we need a lot of work. We will provide also a lot of support, we have many projects in this respect. Food safety is another concern, where Albania needs to acquire the necessary know-how. And I would also say agriculture. And then of course, as a red thread, administrative capacity. Build up a strong public administration that can ensure that these reforms are implemented properly.  

Journalist: The Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Development has stated that it is undergoing a process of accrediting new procedures and awaiting the completion of a financing agreement with the European Commission for the IPARD 3 program. I quoted it just to be correct. What does this mean specifically? When can this program start?

Ambassador: It is true that the Albanian government has presented a request to the European Commission to be entrusted with the management of the funds. Which means we are not managing them, we give the management of these funds to the Albanian government. And also in light of the experience of the past, the Commission has asked to be given serious guarantees, also in terms of auditing system, that the funds will be managed properly, in accordance with the rules. Because we are talking about European taxpayers’ money. And we expect the Albanian government to take this very seriously. 

We are now at the stage where the Commission is checking whether the Albanian government is providing sufficient safeguards in this respect. And from where I see it now, I think it will take several months before we come to the actual entrustment of the funds. 

Journalist: So, it’s a matter of months before you reach a decision on these funds?

Ambassador: Yes, for sure. It will take time. It’s not for tomorrow.

Journalist: The last question, which of course concerns the recent developments in Albania, SPAK, NBI – international investments, as we always say. What is your opinion on these two bodies, how are they working, how is their performance?

Ambassador: They enjoy my full support. I think that they’ve done an incredible job in challenging circumstances. You know, people, when they talk about SPAK, perhaps they talk only about the corruption cases, but we should look also at the fantastic work they’re doing in terms of fighting organized crime. And that is a very dangerous type of job. You’re exposed to the risk also of threats and violence. That’s why we are also providing a lot of support to them, because we want them to strengthen their capacity, for example, in the area of financial investigations. 

We also want them to strengthen their procedures, their internal procedures, so that they provide safeguards to the rights of defendants, so that the procedures that they follow are impeccable, also from a human rights point of view. I know that now there’s work that is being done by the government of Albania, together with some experts from EU Member States, with a view to revising certain aspects of the Criminal Procedural Code. And there our position is very clear. Obviously, anything that strengthens the safeguards of people is commendable and should be done.But this should not become an excuse to create obstacles to the smooth running of investigations by SPAK and NBI. This should not make it more difficult for them to investigate cases of organized crime and corruption in Albania, because that’s absolutely key for the accession process and for the credibility of Albania. 

Journalist: If Albania were a student who would be tested in an exam to join the European Union, which would be the subject matter for this weak student to focus more? 

Ambassador: That’s a difficult one. I know people say we have to do our homework, and it feels like you are treating Albania like a little pupil, and I am the teacher and I’m telling you, have you done your homework, and you are not very good. And I don’t like this kind of relationship. Albania is a sovereign country, and we are having a negotiation and of course it’s a negotiation sui generis, because you have to apply the standards, and it’s not that we can lower the standards in order to please you.

Fundamentals we talked about. We talked about justice. And I think we really need to focus more on the ordinary justice system that it delivers to citizens. And the independent justice institutions, the two councils, for example, really have to take seriously their job. They have to live up to their responsibilities and make sure that they formulate the requests necessary to make the justice system perform efficiently. And we’re not there yet. 

But if we look at other things, maybe out of my personal culture, I feel that Albania has not yet developed, has not yet designed a development model which is environmentally friendly. And that’s critical for a country that has such beautiful nature, mountains, and coastline. When it comes to tourism, I think you really need to switch from this kind of intensive tourism to tourism which is much more sustainable from an environmental viewpoint. That takes skills. But there’s a lot of experience in our Member States that can be used for that purpose. So maybe they can do more in that. 

Journalist: Corruption, organized crime are …

Ambassador: Of course, these are. I don’t want to be the one that always says corruption and organized crime. Of course, this is a major obstacle. When you asked me at the beginning, what are the major issues in the accession process, these are the issues. But I also think that for the development of Albania, one has to look also at the sectors like, for example, the environment. Because the way it’s developing, I see that it’s aggravating some of the problems and it comes to a point where it is very difficult to reverse.

Journalist: Mr. Ambassador, when are you leaving Albania, when will your mission here end?

Ambassador: I’ll leave Albania at the end of August.

Journalist: At the end of August. How are you leaving Albania, what impressions has this country left on you?

Ambassador: I have lots of memories, beautiful memories and exciting moments. It’s a bit difficult for me to summarize these three years, because they have been so intense. I was really thrilled to come to Albania, a country I knew but not that much. But a country I also felt so close to me culturally as an Italian. It has not disappointed me. It is also a country, I’ve said from the beginning, whereyou never have a single dull day, there’s always something happening.

Journalist: This is our speciality!

Ambassador: Exactly. It is also a country where you should never take things at face value. You need to exercise a lot of judgment to try to understand, to decrypt, to see what are the motivations of the actors. So, from the intellectual viewpoint is extremely stimulating and on top of it all, I came at a point when we started the negotiations. So, I really had the feeling that I was helping this country move forward, and finally I realized its ambition, an ambition that started with the toppling of the communist regime, that of being in Europe.

Journalist: The most beautiful city, the best cuisine, what is one specific Albanian thing that you will take with you even when you leave?

Ambassador: I’m going to be in trouble now. Because the interpreter is from Gjirokastra, she expects me to say Gjirokastra but I also love Berat. In terms of cuisine I’m not going to name the name, because otherwise they will say I’m going to do publicity but there is a little agritourism outside Tirana where I love to go, for the food because it is what we Italians call “kilometer zero” (chilometrozero), which is all produced locally, for the view, it’s so peaceful, bucolic I would say, and also it reminds me of my childhood. You know, when on Sunday you would dress nicely and you would go to the restaurant. My family is from Verona, but my grandparents were in a little village outside Verona and so, there we would go to the trattoria, under the tress. So, these are the memories.

Journalist: Have you learned any Albanian words?

 Ambassador: Yes, I’ve learned a few Albanian words, but I was trained as a translator so for me languages are important. I did six months of Albanian, it was from one to two, twice a week, and of course I didn’t have time to do my homework, so the teacher was saying you haven’t learn the stuff, so it was becoming very stressful because I am very perfectionist and I like to master a language.

Journalist: I understand. 

Ambassador: I know a few words and what I love now is that when I listen to people and I know what they are saying more or less, I can recognize the words. And one thing that I thought is that when I leave Albania, I might give it some time to actually learn the language because one big regret that I have is that I was never able to go to the theatre, watch a play in Albanian, and that’s part of experiencing a country, you know, or reading a book.

Journalist: Obviously, it’s a difficult language, I’m sure they told you that.

Ambassador: Very difficult. I’m telling you, sometimes the teacher would say: are you doing this on purpose, why are you making it so difficult for me?

Journalist: Of course, you will leave Albania, you will have your own perspective going forward, but in your memories and in your life, what place will Albania occupy?

Ambassador: It will remain in my life. In full respect of the diplomatic rules, I think you’ll see me again in Albania, for sure.

Journalist: With great pleasure. This time you will come as someone who loves Albania, to have a great time?

Ambassador: Exactly. Yes, just as a private citizen, enjoying my friends, because I have a lot of friends here in Albania, and enjoying the cities, the landscape, maybe go hiking more than I did because I didn’t do much and I love hiking.

Journalist: Mr. Ambassador, it was a pleasure talking with you. Thank you!

Ambassador: Thank you, it was very nice of you to have me! Thank you very much!

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